142 messages in org.apache.cocoon.devRe: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?
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Sylvain WallezOct 3, 2005 5:18 am 
Luca MorandiniOct 3, 2005 5:26 am 
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Carsten ZiegelerOct 3, 2005 8:31 am 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 3, 2005 8:36 am 
Sylvain WallezOct 3, 2005 8:41 am 
Daniel FagerstromOct 3, 2005 8:44 am 
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Stefano MazzocchiOct 3, 2005 9:04 am 
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Sylvain WallezOct 3, 2005 1:38 pm 
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Steven NoelsOct 4, 2005 3:39 am 
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hepaboluOct 4, 2005 4:00 am 
Joerg HeinickeOct 4, 2005 4:39 am 
Sylvain WallezOct 4, 2005 4:57 am 
Daniel FagerstromOct 4, 2005 5:48 am 
Arje CahnOct 4, 2005 5:55 am 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 4, 2005 9:08 am 
Sylvain WallezOct 4, 2005 9:24 am 
Carsten ZiegelerOct 4, 2005 12:43 pm 
Steven NoelsOct 5, 2005 3:57 am 
Carsten ZiegelerOct 10, 2005 5:02 am 
Joerg HeinickeOct 11, 2005 2:03 pm 
Vadim GritsenkoOct 11, 2005 8:01 pm 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 11, 2005 8:16 pm 
Vadim GritsenkoOct 11, 2005 8:35 pm 
Bertrand DelacretazOct 11, 2005 11:20 pm 
Max PfingsthornOct 12, 2005 12:31 am 
Torsten CurdtOct 12, 2005 12:32 am 
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Sylvain WallezOct 12, 2005 1:34 am 
Carsten ZiegelerOct 12, 2005 2:21 am 
Daniel FagerstromOct 12, 2005 4:52 am 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 12, 2005 8:58 am 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 12, 2005 9:01 am 
UpayaviraOct 12, 2005 9:20 am 
Vadim GritsenkoOct 12, 2005 9:38 am 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 12, 2005 9:47 am 
Niclas HedhmanOct 12, 2005 10:04 am 
UpayaviraOct 12, 2005 11:57 am 
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Stefano MazzocchiOct 12, 2005 2:09 pm 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 12, 2005 2:18 pm 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 12, 2005 2:20 pm 
Sylvain WallezOct 12, 2005 2:35 pm 
Vadim GritsenkoOct 12, 2005 2:47 pm 
Daniel FagerstromOct 13, 2005 2:41 am 
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Vadim GritsenkoOct 13, 2005 8:07 am 
Ralph GoersOct 13, 2005 9:14 am 
Vadim GritsenkoOct 13, 2005 9:22 am 
Ralph GoersOct 13, 2005 9:44 am 
Daniel FagerstromOct 13, 2005 9:56 am 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 13, 2005 10:01 am 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 13, 2005 10:05 am 
Daniel FagerstromOct 13, 2005 1:59 pm 
Joerg HeinickeOct 13, 2005 2:03 pm 
Joerg HeinickeOct 13, 2005 2:05 pm 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 13, 2005 3:25 pm 
Reinhard PoetzOct 13, 2005 10:57 pm 
Daniel FagerstromOct 14, 2005 2:05 am 
Vadim GritsenkoOct 14, 2005 6:01 am 
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Stefano MazzocchiOct 14, 2005 11:34 am 
Vadim GritsenkoOct 14, 2005 11:45 am 
Reinhard PoetzOct 15, 2005 1:38 am 
Joerg HeinickeOct 15, 2005 1:40 am 
Joerg HeinickeOct 15, 2005 1:45 am 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 15, 2005 8:53 am 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 15, 2005 9:08 am 
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Subject:Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?Actions...
From:Carsten Ziegeler (czie@apache.org)
Date:Oct 4, 2005 12:43:50 pm
List:org.apache.cocoon.dev

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

Stefano,

We are a large number of people who got inspired of your visions and have spent years on develop and implement them. Some have even built companies around Cocoon. Now everyone who want to start using Cocoon in a project, sell products based on it or services have to fight:

"The founder of Cocoon find it obsolete."

Read http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/94/ before putting words in my mouth.

The problem is imho that people tend to think in headlines - like the one above. So whatever you tell in the following three hundred pages or whatever is irrelevant to 99%. And this means the message most people get is exactly how Daniel has put it. Everywhere I go I'm faced with scared users asking me "What should we use know as Cocoon is dead?" (I replaced obsolete with dead here to make it more dramatically - also people are asking exactly this question). And what should I answer them? "Oh, it wasn't meant this way, it's just a wake up call." Now, you can imagine which questions are asked next.

So I agree with Daniel here that the whole "wake up call" (if it was any) was not the best thing that could happen for Cocoon.

And we as a community should not start running around like headless chickens crying out "I saw the light, we were so wrong. We must do something! But what?". We all know what we should do next, we already knew it before this mail and all we have to do is just continuing the work - so in the end less discussions about what we should do and how great everything could be and more doing.

Talking without doing is absolutely useless imho.