Ralph Goers wrote:

That is exactly what I wanted to point out with the "Maven sucked too much energy from Cocoon" argument: I don't want and shouldn't have to become a committer on the build system as a necessary preliminary to doing usefull stuff on Cocoon.

Most of the Maven plugins can be rewritten in a couple of Ant lines. Also, it is possible to have common reusable Ant build files that avoid rewriting everything from scratch every time. Now it's true that no community effort has taken place to provide a distribution of such standard reusable Ant files. Maybe people did not felt the urge to do so because Ant files to build simple artifacts are so straightforward.

I now this is work in progress. But not self-updating should be the default rather than being an intial feature that can be disabled by specifying the exact version of each and every Maven plugin you want a fixed-version of (and how do I know which version I want?)

Now I'll shut up since most people here seem to be happy with Maven. I'm not, let's move on to other debates.

Sylvain