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142 messages in org.apache.cocoon.devRe: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Sep 30, 2005 2:56 pm | |
| Sebastien Arbogast | Sep 30, 2005 3:11 pm | |
| Ralph Goers | Sep 30, 2005 3:16 pm | |
| Leo Sutic | Sep 30, 2005 3:48 pm | |
| Berin Loritsch | Sep 30, 2005 4:27 pm | |
| Tony Collen | Sep 30, 2005 4:47 pm | |
| Niclas Hedhman | Sep 30, 2005 10:20 pm | |
| Andrew Savory | Oct 1, 2005 7:23 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 1, 2005 1:51 pm | |
| Jaka Jaksic | Oct 1, 2005 6:41 pm | |
| Niclas Hedhman | Oct 1, 2005 9:42 pm | |
| Niclas Hedhman | Oct 1, 2005 10:11 pm | |
| Joerg Heinicke | Oct 2, 2005 1:13 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 2, 2005 1:51 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 2, 2005 4:02 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 2, 2005 4:29 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 2, 2005 5:53 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 2, 2005 6:43 am | |
| Andreas Petter | Oct 2, 2005 7:03 am | |
| Torsten Curdt | Oct 2, 2005 7:32 am | |
| Antonio Gallardo | Oct 2, 2005 12:01 pm | |
| Bertrand Delacretaz | Oct 2, 2005 12:38 pm | |
| Antonio Gallardo | Oct 2, 2005 12:48 pm | |
| Ross Gardler | Oct 2, 2005 1:11 pm | |
| Bertrand Delacretaz | Oct 2, 2005 1:13 pm | |
| Antonio Gallardo | Oct 2, 2005 1:41 pm | |
| Antonio Gallardo | Oct 2, 2005 2:02 pm | |
| Pier Fumagalli | Oct 2, 2005 3:51 pm | |
| Niclas Hedhman | Oct 2, 2005 10:11 pm | |
| Reinhard Poetz | Oct 2, 2005 10:55 pm | |
| Bertrand Delacretaz | Oct 3, 2005 2:33 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 3:10 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 3:39 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 4:09 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 4:42 am | |
| Andrew Savory | Oct 3, 2005 4:50 am | |
| Ralph Goers | Oct 3, 2005 4:52 am | |
| Thomas Lutz | Oct 3, 2005 5:01 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 5:06 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 5:18 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 3, 2005 5:26 am | |
| Andrew Savory | Oct 3, 2005 5:33 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 6:20 am | |
| Tony Collen | Oct 3, 2005 6:28 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 6:35 am | |
| Upayavira | Oct 3, 2005 6:43 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 6:44 am | |
| Berin Loritsch | Oct 3, 2005 7:14 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 3, 2005 7:18 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 7:29 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 8:02 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 8:08 am | |
| Steven Noels | Oct 3, 2005 8:19 am | |
| Carsten Ziegeler | Oct 3, 2005 8:31 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 3, 2005 8:36 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 8:41 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 3, 2005 8:44 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 8:53 am | |
| Carsten Ziegeler | Oct 3, 2005 8:57 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 8:59 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 9:00 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 3, 2005 9:04 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 3, 2005 9:11 am | |
| Andrew Savory | Oct 3, 2005 9:20 am | |
| Berin Loritsch | Oct 3, 2005 9:34 am | |
| 77 later messages | ||

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| Subject: | Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete? | Actions... |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Daniel Fagerstrom (dani...@nada.kth.se) | |
| Date: | Oct 2, 2005 4:02:42 am | |
| List: | org.apache.cocoon.dev | |
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: ...
The strong architectural parallel between mozilla and cocoon, makes me very hopeful in the future of mozilla as a platform, even if there are years ahead of polishing to do.
I also want the GUI executed in the browser, but as many allready have said, the future isn't here yet. Mozilla isn't everywhere and if the new IE is atractive enough, it might never be.
But as a researcher, a scientist and one that likes to push the edge, I sense that cocoon is kinda 'done', not as in "finished, passe'", but more as in "been there, done that".
Sure, lots of things to polish and little things to continue to improve,
Like making it easy to build applications with, for a large group of users ;) Polish and making Cocoon mainstream might not be as sexy from a research POV. OTH, if we succeed in attracting a large user base, it means a lot of other kind of oportunities, that can be exiting in its own sense, but maybe for another personality type.
but I wonder if the action is somewhere else.
XML pipelines, component orientation and IOC containers, continuations and maybe more things that once where highly inovative, are used by other projects and some of it even start to become design patterns. And our versions of the ideas might feel obsolete in contrast to some of the newer implementations.
OTH, we have been fairly good in keeping buzz word compliance, we have AJAX and can use Spring within Cocoon, e.g.
As a side note Apache's next generation WS-architecture, Axis2 is based on XML pipelines. And they have (at least at some points) improved compared to what we have. The piplines are pull based instead of push based, which makes it easier to write code and makes whole new access patterns for data possible. Also it is based on in and out pipes which in my biased vew, is a large plus.
Java modularization in general and with OSGi in particular might well become the "next big thing". And here we, in my likewise biased view, are doing interesting things and we are also starting cooperation with other communities. I also think that polymorphic sitemap inharitance will make reusability of webapps possible at a completely new level.
How do you feel about this?
There will IMO be a need for server side functionality in the future as well, although what is served will change. As long as we are a strong community we will adapt to the changing circumstances. And as long as we do that, Cocoon will not become obsolete.
The main threat IMO is that Cocoon is too fat, monolithic, closed and hard to understand for new commers (and old timers as well). Which makes it harder to adapt to change.
With blocks and refactoring we can make it adaptable again. But it requires hard work and a lot of determination.
/Daniel







