142 messages in org.apache.cocoon.devRe: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?
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Stefano MazzocchiSep 30, 2005 2:56 pm 
Sebastien ArbogastSep 30, 2005 3:11 pm 
Ralph GoersSep 30, 2005 3:16 pm 
Leo SuticSep 30, 2005 3:48 pm 
Berin LoritschSep 30, 2005 4:27 pm 
Tony CollenSep 30, 2005 4:47 pm 
Niclas HedhmanSep 30, 2005 10:20 pm 
Andrew SavoryOct 1, 2005 7:23 am 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 1, 2005 1:51 pm 
Jaka JaksicOct 1, 2005 6:41 pm 
Niclas HedhmanOct 1, 2005 9:42 pm 
Niclas HedhmanOct 1, 2005 10:11 pm 
Joerg HeinickeOct 2, 2005 1:13 am 
Sylvain WallezOct 2, 2005 1:51 am 
Daniel FagerstromOct 2, 2005 4:02 am 
Luca MorandiniOct 2, 2005 4:29 am 
Daniel FagerstromOct 2, 2005 5:53 am 
Luca MorandiniOct 2, 2005 6:43 am 
Andreas PetterOct 2, 2005 7:03 am 
Torsten CurdtOct 2, 2005 7:32 am 
Antonio GallardoOct 2, 2005 12:01 pm 
Bertrand DelacretazOct 2, 2005 12:38 pm 
Antonio GallardoOct 2, 2005 12:48 pm 
Ross GardlerOct 2, 2005 1:11 pm 
Bertrand DelacretazOct 2, 2005 1:13 pm 
Antonio GallardoOct 2, 2005 1:41 pm 
Antonio GallardoOct 2, 2005 2:02 pm 
Pier FumagalliOct 2, 2005 3:51 pm 
Niclas HedhmanOct 2, 2005 10:11 pm 
Reinhard PoetzOct 2, 2005 10:55 pm 
Bertrand DelacretazOct 3, 2005 2:33 am 
Sylvain WallezOct 3, 2005 3:10 am 
Jorg HeymansOct 3, 2005 3:39 am 
Jorg HeymansOct 3, 2005 4:09 am 
Sylvain WallezOct 3, 2005 4:42 am 
Andrew SavoryOct 3, 2005 4:50 am 
Ralph GoersOct 3, 2005 4:52 am 
Thomas LutzOct 3, 2005 5:01 am 
Jorg HeymansOct 3, 2005 5:06 am 
Sylvain WallezOct 3, 2005 5:18 am 
Luca MorandiniOct 3, 2005 5:26 am 
Andrew SavoryOct 3, 2005 5:33 am 
Jorg HeymansOct 3, 2005 6:20 am 
Tony CollenOct 3, 2005 6:28 am 
Jorg HeymansOct 3, 2005 6:35 am 
UpayaviraOct 3, 2005 6:43 am 
Sylvain WallezOct 3, 2005 6:44 am 
Berin LoritschOct 3, 2005 7:14 am 
Luca MorandiniOct 3, 2005 7:18 am 
Jorg HeymansOct 3, 2005 7:29 am 
Sylvain WallezOct 3, 2005 8:02 am 
Jorg HeymansOct 3, 2005 8:08 am 
Steven NoelsOct 3, 2005 8:19 am 
Carsten ZiegelerOct 3, 2005 8:31 am 
Stefano MazzocchiOct 3, 2005 8:36 am 
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Subject:Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?Actions...
From:Berin Loritsch (blor@d-haven.org)
Date:Sep 30, 2005 4:27:41 pm
List:org.apache.cocoon.dev

Very interesting read. As with all inovations, the greatest achievements are usually the "side issues". The SoC, component frameworks, et al, helped improve the way we think about approaching the development of software. While that has little to do with web publication, the contributions to the development world are certainly there.

However, I do disagree in one area (see below)

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

If you ask me, the current infatuation with Ruby on Rails and friends, while understanding and to the point (the need to avoid XML pushups, so true), will fail dramatically short in scale to complex systems. Just like M$ Word is great to write one/two pages and it fails miserably to help you with your thesis, something like rails is awesome for your blog or single-handed ecommerce web site, it would kill you no less than PHP with a massively complex web site.

I'll be honest that I am currently infatuated with Ruby and Ruby on Rails in particular, but it is more the way that they approach the problem of writing a web application. The contribution is the simplicity and power of convention over configuration. Think about it, all the reams of paper that the Cocoon configuration files and Sitemaps take up in XML are largely unnecessary in the Rails world because there is an intelligent default behavior. Just like Cocoon, the overarching principle of design behind that framework improves the development world. We may be reading something like your post about Rails in the future, nevertheless the underpinning design mindset can influence the process of writing great software.

Truth be told, I am less convinced about Mozilla as a platform than I am about either Cocoon or Rails. I don't doubt there is great power that the browser gives the developer and the user, but at the same time there is even less to help the poor newbie get emersed into that world. When I see a coherent Mozilla development environment I may change my mind. As of right now, there are new possibilities but the barrier of entry is still too high for the Mozilla as a platform.