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142 messages in org.apache.cocoon.devRe: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Sep 30, 2005 2:56 pm | |
| Sebastien Arbogast | Sep 30, 2005 3:11 pm | |
| Ralph Goers | Sep 30, 2005 3:16 pm | |
| Leo Sutic | Sep 30, 2005 3:48 pm | |
| Berin Loritsch | Sep 30, 2005 4:27 pm | |
| Tony Collen | Sep 30, 2005 4:47 pm | |
| Niclas Hedhman | Sep 30, 2005 10:20 pm | |
| Andrew Savory | Oct 1, 2005 7:23 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 1, 2005 1:51 pm | |
| Jaka Jaksic | Oct 1, 2005 6:41 pm | |
| Niclas Hedhman | Oct 1, 2005 9:42 pm | |
| Niclas Hedhman | Oct 1, 2005 10:11 pm | |
| Joerg Heinicke | Oct 2, 2005 1:13 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 2, 2005 1:51 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 2, 2005 4:02 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 2, 2005 4:29 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 2, 2005 5:53 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 2, 2005 6:43 am | |
| Andreas Petter | Oct 2, 2005 7:03 am | |
| Torsten Curdt | Oct 2, 2005 7:32 am | |
| Antonio Gallardo | Oct 2, 2005 12:01 pm | |
| Bertrand Delacretaz | Oct 2, 2005 12:38 pm | |
| Antonio Gallardo | Oct 2, 2005 12:48 pm | |
| Ross Gardler | Oct 2, 2005 1:11 pm | |
| Bertrand Delacretaz | Oct 2, 2005 1:13 pm | |
| Antonio Gallardo | Oct 2, 2005 1:41 pm | |
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| Pier Fumagalli | Oct 2, 2005 3:51 pm | |
| Niclas Hedhman | Oct 2, 2005 10:11 pm | |
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| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 3:10 am | |
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| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 4:09 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 4:42 am | |
| Andrew Savory | Oct 3, 2005 4:50 am | |
| Ralph Goers | Oct 3, 2005 4:52 am | |
| Thomas Lutz | Oct 3, 2005 5:01 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 5:06 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 5:18 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 3, 2005 5:26 am | |
| Andrew Savory | Oct 3, 2005 5:33 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 6:20 am | |
| Tony Collen | Oct 3, 2005 6:28 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 6:35 am | |
| Upayavira | Oct 3, 2005 6:43 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 6:44 am | |
| Berin Loritsch | Oct 3, 2005 7:14 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 3, 2005 7:18 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 7:29 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 8:02 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 8:08 am | |
| Steven Noels | Oct 3, 2005 8:19 am | |
| Carsten Ziegeler | Oct 3, 2005 8:31 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 3, 2005 8:36 am | |
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| Subject: | Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete? | Actions... |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Berin Loritsch (blor...@d-haven.org) | |
| Date: | Sep 30, 2005 4:27:41 pm | |
| List: | org.apache.cocoon.dev | |
Very interesting read. As with all inovations, the greatest achievements are usually the "side issues". The SoC, component frameworks, et al, helped improve the way we think about approaching the development of software. While that has little to do with web publication, the contributions to the development world are certainly there.
However, I do disagree in one area (see below)
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
If you ask me, the current infatuation with Ruby on Rails and friends, while understanding and to the point (the need to avoid XML pushups, so true), will fail dramatically short in scale to complex systems. Just like M$ Word is great to write one/two pages and it fails miserably to help you with your thesis, something like rails is awesome for your blog or single-handed ecommerce web site, it would kill you no less than PHP with a massively complex web site.
I'll be honest that I am currently infatuated with Ruby and Ruby on Rails in particular, but it is more the way that they approach the problem of writing a web application. The contribution is the simplicity and power of convention over configuration. Think about it, all the reams of paper that the Cocoon configuration files and Sitemaps take up in XML are largely unnecessary in the Rails world because there is an intelligent default behavior. Just like Cocoon, the overarching principle of design behind that framework improves the development world. We may be reading something like your post about Rails in the future, nevertheless the underpinning design mindset can influence the process of writing great software.
Truth be told, I am less convinced about Mozilla as a platform than I am about either Cocoon or Rails. I don't doubt there is great power that the browser gives the developer and the user, but at the same time there is even less to help the poor newbie get emersed into that world. When I see a coherent Mozilla development environment I may change my mind. As of right now, there are new possibilities but the barrier of entry is still too high for the Mozilla as a platform.







