Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete? - Sylvain Wallez - org.apache.cocoon.dev

142 messages in org.apache.cocoon.devRe: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

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Stefano Mazzocchi	Sep 30, 2005 2:56 pm
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Ralph Goers	Sep 30, 2005 3:16 pm
Leo Sutic	Sep 30, 2005 3:48 pm
Berin Loritsch	Sep 30, 2005 4:27 pm
Tony Collen	Sep 30, 2005 4:47 pm
Niclas Hedhman	Sep 30, 2005 10:20 pm
Andrew Savory	Oct 1, 2005 7:23 am
Stefano Mazzocchi	Oct 1, 2005 1:51 pm
Jaka Jaksic	Oct 1, 2005 6:41 pm
Niclas Hedhman	Oct 1, 2005 9:42 pm
Niclas Hedhman	Oct 1, 2005 10:11 pm
Joerg Heinicke	Oct 2, 2005 1:13 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 2, 2005 1:51 am
Daniel Fagerstrom	Oct 2, 2005 4:02 am
Luca Morandini	Oct 2, 2005 4:29 am
Daniel Fagerstrom	Oct 2, 2005 5:53 am
Luca Morandini	Oct 2, 2005 6:43 am
Andreas Petter	Oct 2, 2005 7:03 am
Torsten Curdt	Oct 2, 2005 7:32 am
Antonio Gallardo	Oct 2, 2005 12:01 pm
Bertrand Delacretaz	Oct 2, 2005 12:38 pm
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Ross Gardler	Oct 2, 2005 1:11 pm
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Antonio Gallardo	Oct 2, 2005 1:41 pm
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Pier Fumagalli	Oct 2, 2005 3:51 pm
Niclas Hedhman	Oct 2, 2005 10:11 pm
Reinhard Poetz	Oct 2, 2005 10:55 pm
Bertrand Delacretaz	Oct 3, 2005 2:33 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 3, 2005 3:10 am
Jorg Heymans	Oct 3, 2005 3:39 am
Jorg Heymans	Oct 3, 2005 4:09 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 3, 2005 4:42 am
Andrew Savory	Oct 3, 2005 4:50 am
Ralph Goers	Oct 3, 2005 4:52 am
Thomas Lutz	Oct 3, 2005 5:01 am
Jorg Heymans	Oct 3, 2005 5:06 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 3, 2005 5:18 am
Luca Morandini	Oct 3, 2005 5:26 am
Andrew Savory	Oct 3, 2005 5:33 am
Jorg Heymans	Oct 3, 2005 6:20 am
Tony Collen	Oct 3, 2005 6:28 am
Jorg Heymans	Oct 3, 2005 6:35 am
Upayavira	Oct 3, 2005 6:43 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 3, 2005 6:44 am
Berin Loritsch	Oct 3, 2005 7:14 am
Luca Morandini	Oct 3, 2005 7:18 am
Jorg Heymans	Oct 3, 2005 7:29 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 3, 2005 8:02 am
Jorg Heymans	Oct 3, 2005 8:08 am
Steven Noels	Oct 3, 2005 8:19 am
Carsten Ziegeler	Oct 3, 2005 8:31 am
Stefano Mazzocchi	Oct 3, 2005 8:36 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 3, 2005 8:41 am
Daniel Fagerstrom	Oct 3, 2005 8:44 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 3, 2005 8:53 am
Carsten Ziegeler	Oct 3, 2005 8:57 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 3, 2005 8:59 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 3, 2005 9:00 am
Stefano Mazzocchi	Oct 3, 2005 9:04 am
Luca Morandini	Oct 3, 2005 9:11 am
Andrew Savory	Oct 3, 2005 9:20 am
Berin Loritsch	Oct 3, 2005 9:34 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 3, 2005 10:07 am
Ross Gardler	Oct 3, 2005 10:17 am
Luca Morandini	Oct 3, 2005 10:30 am
Nicola Ken Barozzi	Oct 3, 2005 10:44 am
Antonio Gallardo	Oct 3, 2005 12:30 pm
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 3, 2005 1:38 pm
Steven Noels	Oct 4, 2005 1:08 am
Daniel Fagerstrom	Oct 4, 2005 2:16 am
Pier Fumagalli	Oct 4, 2005 2:31 am
Bertrand Delacretaz	Oct 4, 2005 2:36 am
Daniel Fagerstrom	Oct 4, 2005 3:01 am
Andrew Savory	Oct 4, 2005 3:13 am
Upayavira	Oct 4, 2005 3:17 am
Bertrand Delacretaz	Oct 4, 2005 3:29 am
Steven Noels	Oct 4, 2005 3:39 am
Torsten Curdt	Oct 4, 2005 3:47 am
hepabolu	Oct 4, 2005 4:00 am
Joerg Heinicke	Oct 4, 2005 4:39 am
Sylvain Wallez	Oct 4, 2005 4:57 am
Daniel Fagerstrom	Oct 4, 2005 5:48 am
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Subject:	Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?	Actions...
From:	Sylvain Wallez (sylv...@apache.org)
Date:	Oct 3, 2005 4:42:41 am
List:	org.apache.cocoon.dev

Jorg Heymans wrote:

Luca Morandini wrote:

Consider: 1) Declining cocoon-users activity.

This worries me as well, especially the last couple of months it has become very obvious [1].

"Why?" you might ask: Is the framework stable? Have most issues been solved/answered already? Does everything Just Work(tm) and we only have happy users? Or are people silently jumping ship?

Yup. That's a question I have myself.

2) Reduced attendance (so far) to GetTogether (and it shouldn't be, since Amsterdam is a more accessible, if less fascinating, location).

possibly an artifact of 1) yes. It's strange enough to say the least. Maybe the topics weren't interesting enough for normal joe-user?

3) Struts being more and more popular.

often discussed here, very true - as much as we hate (to admit) it

Is it really more popular now than it was before? Struts always has been the defacto standard controller in J2EE webapps.

My 0.02 EUR: I think Cocoon will remain a "niche" framework, used for complex applications and/or by gifted developers.

Yup, and that's exactly the niche we need to get out of.

<marketing type="idea"> Lets do a video like Rails [2], a picture says more than a thousand words, a video more than a thousand pictures! WDOT? Can something like this put us to shame or work in our advantage? </marketing>

Currently, we cannot make an equivalent in 5 minutes. We need code generation tools, which is one of the reasons for which RoR is so productive. Cocoon is "just" a framework and comes naked: it's up to you to write everything by assembling the (high-level) components it provides. Now there's a large range of CRUD-type webapps that always use the same patterns and where code generation may definitely save time.

So videos for now will be limited to some demos where things have been prepared in advance (e.g. a standard cforms sitemap).

What we can do quickly however, is to setup a live version of the latest snapshot at cocoon.zones.apache.org besides the latest official release. A topic for the hackaton?

Sylvain

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